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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:29:41 GMT -5
This is not quite complete. Some polishing and painting will follow. Will have to reconfigure windshield. Family problems over the course of these last few weeks have left me with little interest in the project. I was able to test drive it a couple Nights ago. The good; Handles flatter in the corners, ride is slightly improved. Instruments are an easier read, I can reach the choke while Belted in. More wind protection below the neck level with shoulders and upper arms out of the air stream. Thankfully, knee contact with the cross member supporting the old dash is no longer an issue and leg room is comparable to a production car. Review mirrors ,being closer to the driver, are much more effective. The bad; Wind currents at helmet level make my head rock side to side. Radiator airflow out of the reverse hood scoop now flows right up the cowling, over the windshield and dumps into my face. More heat is apparent coming through the firewall lingering in the more enclosed cokpit. I came back from the 85 degree ride in a sweat. Used to be comfortable at those temps. Its harder to get in/out. Door helps a bit. The ugly; Stability has taken a hit, and it no longer tracks arrow straight, even in light winds and on smooth surfaces. Could be many reasons with so many changes all at once. Smaller chin spoiler was substituted (kept damaging the old one on driveway dips and ditches)fenders eliminated, Alignment may have been affected while changing to the remote coilovers. Ride ht was raised 3/8", still low with a laden clearance of about 4". Problem May be related to that turbulence I feel at the helmet level. I began with a trike that worked really well as it had been refined and debugged over a period of years. So initially I am disappointed that it will take a lots of work to get the bugs worked out. I am not so eager to work on it as I once was.
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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:30:20 GMT -5
May I ask, where are you located? I know in some states you have to have fenders and wonder if you're actually going to forgo them? I liked them, they are unique, but I am terribly sorry to hear that you're beginning to lose interest. All I can say is you have a beautiful piece there and once you're done tweaking I'm sure you'll get that new vehicle feeling and it's always a great feeling to have something working again and knowing you were able to do it. It's how i feel after a week of trying to figure out the same issue on one of my cars or motorcycles
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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:30:44 GMT -5
Thanks much for your encouragement. I am likely to regain interest when some personal problems resolve, but don't know when that will happen. In Okla, the law regarding fenders is clear as mud. They are supposed to be "of the original type and coverage". How would that apply to a home made trike? I think the police are aware of the ambiguity and do not enforce the law. Fenderless hot rods are a common sight here. There is no annual inspection required and all compliance with state law is left up to cops on the road. In four years I have been stopped only once, that because my plate was obscured. It was a sheriff's deputy. The plate was hinged up to provide access to the tank filler. I had left it up after refueling. After I lowered the plate, The deputy apologized for stopping me and said I was free to go, but he would sure like to look the trike over. I spent about 20 mins there explaining the build, and talking cars with him. At no time did he so much as ask me for a drivers licence , registration or proof of insurance. I had no fenders as the time, no inspection of lights horn etc. was made. So I don't worry about fenders. They do have a practical purpose however, controlling spray and gravel. I even think the old ones may have helped stability a little, either by reducing turbulence at the back of the tire or providing a wind vane effect. Did not like the look though and will probably make some more eventually.
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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:31:25 GMT -5
Sometimes you have to step back and take a break. Give it a little time and then buy some things for it and you can renew your interest. Always deal with personal problems first. I use my hobbies to cope with personal problems. Built some of my best cars after ending relationships with some women who turn out to be less than ideal or faithful. Your trike is unique and impressive, you have a right to be proud of it.
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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:31:51 GMT -5
I would like to suggest that try fiberglass over foam for the fenders. I've been experimenting with liquid foam for a go kart I'm building my cousins. You can shape out the foam and add where you've taken to much. Also you could work on a more aero design which would help with your stabilIty issues. I hope all works out for you. Your trike has served to inspire me in it's simplicity for a commuter trike I want to build.
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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:32:24 GMT -5
Thanks for your interest and consideration. Just not into seeking solutions at this time.
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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:33:30 GMT -5
Personal problems with family can grind about everything to a halt. Take your time and get lifes issues under hand. Hey, you owe us nothing, we will wait for you to post again. Till then, take it easy.
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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:33:55 GMT -5
New bubble shield covers lights and improves air flow.
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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:34:58 GMT -5
Front end is a lot cleaner looking. Your tin work is outstanding. Are you getting the handling back to where it was or better? Jim
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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:35:35 GMT -5
Thanks. Handles better than before if you do not include straight line stability as part of handling. That aspect was acceptable before I began the redesign, so Its only a matter of time till I get it tweaked back to where it was. Right now, I'm working on cosmetics so I can attend a local car show with it at the end of Sept.. My priorities are backwards; looks before function.
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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:36:06 GMT -5
Your priorities are bang on for a car show!
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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:36:32 GMT -5
Hello Triplethreat Your machine looks awesome well done Ned
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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:37:04 GMT -5
Thanks Ned. I am currently struggling with the paint. I wanted that polished aluminum look seen on air craft, but after days of trying to get a scratch free finish on a single panel, I gave up. Gonna go with a satin black finish with red graphics.
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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:38:15 GMT -5
I have problems with the straight line stability too. Over a speed of 70km/h it feels like driving more a boat then a car. I aks at the importer of bitubo shocks and he told me that the issue could be that not every shocks can be used in every position. It is not equal if the shock is in a laying or standing position. I noticed ( laying position like yours) that there is not a real damping it feels more than just the spring is working.If you want use a shock laying it needs a special piston to seperate oil. If you are shaking the shock and you can hear the oil, like I can, you should try other shocks before you change the hole thing once again. Nice work looks really good. Ralf from Germany
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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:39:43 GMT -5
Have you thought about anodizing? not sure what the cost would be for large parts but you can get them clear anodized to keep the look but protect the surface.
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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:40:19 GMT -5
Right Ralf. According to tech info I found on a Monroe web site, horizontally or upside down mounted shocks should be of a monotube design. Most shocks are not suited to be used this way. Web research has left me unable to confirm if my YSS E-302s' are suitable in this application. YSS just describes them as of the "self adjusting, gas emulsion type". My shocks are mounted 20 degrees off horizontal so this might help, but maybe its not enough to matter. I cannot tell that there has been any degradation in dampening action as compared to when the shocks were more or less vertical. Feels quite well snubbed. There is not any of that floaty feel I associate with weak or worn shocks. I think my problem can be addressed with suspension alignment and aerodynamic tweaks like I was able to do with the initial design. But I will try your slosh test next time I have the shocks off.
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Post by liteway on Mar 15, 2019 19:41:03 GMT -5
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Post by liteway on Mar 16, 2019 7:51:00 GMT -5
Oct 2, 2014 at 9:24pm kolibri likes this Quote Edit like Post Options Post by Liteway on Oct 2, 2014 at 9:24pm
Proud of door seam.
Did not complete in time for local car show, was a week late. SCCA in holding a SOLO event in Stroud weekend after next. Will make my first public showing there. I know I will not be allowed to compete but being motorheads maybe they will be as curious as I am about how good it will get around the course and let make a run for grins.
Last Edit: Aug 24, 2017 at 10:13pm by DaveJ98092
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Post by liteway on Mar 16, 2019 8:08:10 GMT -5
I think you did a great job. I like the changes a lot. I'm leaning towards side marker lights in the old shock mount holes. Your turn signals are low in the front. Hard to see from the side, a we need as much visibility as we can get.
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Post by liteway on Mar 16, 2019 8:08:45 GMT -5
Thanks Stretch. I am leaning towards the marker lights.
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Post by liteway on Mar 16, 2019 8:09:16 GMT -5
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Post by liteway on Mar 16, 2019 8:09:54 GMT -5
WOW Very nice. I vote for side marker light also. Maybe some LED strips. Low profile might help keep the clean lines of your build.
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Post by liteway on Mar 16, 2019 8:10:24 GMT -5
Can you put the turn signals there?
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Post by liteway on Mar 16, 2019 8:11:13 GMT -5
Yep. If you look on a earlier page , you will see leds on the front quarter. These were single element type. I managed to use them as signal repeaters in the daytime and marker lights after dark. This was done by throwing a single, double pole, double throw switch on the dash which changed the circuit the lights were working from. I will just go back in with those. They will have to be mounted vertically to fit the space, so I'll try to mount them under a flush lens rather than on the surface. Another advantage to that is they can be mounted to the frame, not the alu. shell where they would have to be unhooked/unplugged each time the shell is removed. That is also an advantage of the small led headlights. They are mounted to the frame, and the front shell can be lifted free of them without jacking with the wiring and I did not have to devise a solid mount on the thin aluminum. It seems as though the hard way is usually the better way. Took it out to "Cars and Coffee" in the city this morning. Attracted considerable attention.
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Post by liteway on Mar 16, 2019 8:13:54 GMT -5
I have problems with the straight line stability too. Over a speed of 70km/h it feels like driving more a boat then a car. I aks at the importer of bitubo shocks and he told me that the issue could be that not every shocks can be used in every position. It is not equal if the shock is in a laying or standing position. I noticed ( laying position like yours) that there is not a real damping it feels more than just the spring is working.If you want use a shock laying it needs a special piston to seperate oil. If you are shaking the shock and you can hear the oil, like I can, you should try other shocks before you change the hole thing once again. Nice work looks realy good. Ralf from Germany Shocks failed slosh test. In my limited ability to bench test them, I discovered they lose rebound dampening in the last inch of travel if inverted or laid flat. However, If I angle them at 22 degrees, as they are mounted to the trike, they seem to work as well as they do vertical. But what if I hit a pothole at 60? Are they affected by acceleration as the fluid flows back and up? What if they get a little hot? They could be a problem. Also, they have neoprene bushings at the rocker end. Lots of sticktion here. Should be needle bearings used as the rocker end moves through a much tighter arc than it would if used conventionally and more rotational movement is required of the bushing. By greasing them, this was reduced and it helped stability noticeably. If I do decide to retain these shocks, proper bearings will have to be fitted. Suspension alignment was checked front and rear and found to be okay. But, still have some other things to try before forking over big bucks for new shocks. Stability problem does not appear aerodynamically related as I first thought that it might. Removing front body panels had no affect. I did note that if I left off just one of the small access panels, the cokpit buffeting problem went away. This points the way to a solution to that problem. Update 10/10 After greasing the anti-roll bar bushings, Stability was again improved. I think 75 percent of my problem was in the increased friction of the additional pivot points of the new set-up. The other 25 percent was aero, because of a smaller front spoiler and fender deletion. Went for a ride yesterday evening and the trike is beginning to feel like its old self, stability wise. I think after the modified fenders are reattached, I'll be all the way back.
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Post by liteway on Mar 16, 2019 8:14:46 GMT -5
<<<SNIP>>> Stability problem does not appear aerodynamically related as I first thought that it might. Removing front body panels had no affect. I did note that if I left off just one of the small access panels, the cokpit buffeting problem went away. This points the way to a solution to that problem. Hey, sometimes a little breeze thru the c0ckpit is needed, especially after having 5 alarm chili the night before. On my Burgman 650 scooter I have a problem of back draft buffeting that pulls you forward and then releases. This causes fatigue and lots of noise, another fatigue factor is noise. By drilling two holes in the windshield and installing two Vetter snap vents (Still available new from Craig Vetter) I get much less buffeting and a bit less noise.
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Post by liteway on Mar 16, 2019 8:15:31 GMT -5
Yeah Dave, I will need to do something like that. I took it on a 100 mi round trip to Stroud this morning to attend an SCCA regional auto cross. Trike behaved okay at 65 on the state roads but was a hand full passing simis on I40. More work to do. Spoke to tech inspector after arrival. As I thought, they see trikes same as bikes, not allowed. He was not even interested enough to walk 50ft from where we were standing to look it over. There was very little interest shown in the trike by anybody attending. I thought these folks were motor heads! To be fair, most there were participants, busy walking, preparing the course or preparing their cars. I did go walk the course with some of the drivers. This is a Huge parking lot. It formerly served Tanger Outlett Mall, before the surrounding building foundations were wiped clean by an F4 about a decade ago. Big enough to allow plenty of hair pens, sweepers. 2 separate slaloms,and a couple of short straights. I think I could have wiped the floor with the Miatas,S2000s, small sedans, various riff-raff and a lone formula V. Talk is cheap. I'll never know. I'm a dummy, had my smart phone camera in my pocket all the time and forgot to take it out for pictures. There is still track day at Hallett and drags at Thunder Valley.
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Post by liteway on Mar 16, 2019 8:16:07 GMT -5
SCCA events are not friendly events. My experience is “We have rules and all rules will be followed.” And I’m in charge, so you will do as I say. Power trippers. Not much fun. I have participated in a few local sports car club autocrosses and always received a warm welcome and lots of interest. Comment from one tech inspector at a local event was “We will find a class for you to run in, or we will make one for you.” Event was a blast. Some people just like to have fun and others are there only to win.
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Post by liteway on Mar 16, 2019 8:16:39 GMT -5
Yeah Jim, and 50 bucks to make 8 runs as temp member or 35 if you have a permanent SCCA membership. Best to look for kicks elsewhere.
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Post by liteway on Mar 16, 2019 8:17:24 GMT -5
(Stepping up on my ANTI-SCCA soap box) I fought with the Napoleon'ians with so many SCCA group leaders in the past. "You will do it my way or else..." Little PI$$ ANT's with lots of power. Probable a Comcast Cable TV setbox installer during the day shift.... Some SCCA groups will work within the rules and make a class that you can run if you can show that there are a few vehicles to run and can draw in spectators. But others are "I am the BMFIC and you can go to HEII if you don't follow MY rules. I spent $1,000's in SCCA fees over 15 years and finely said screw them. I had more fun on weekend track days at our local racetrack where anything goes as long as its proven safe. (Stepping down now)
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