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Post by liteway on Jun 24, 2020 15:41:07 GMT -5
I agree, the spindles are heavy for what they have to do. Cast iron is a dumb material for them. It does not make much more sense than cast iron wheels. Still, far I know , the car manufactures all use cast iron as well. A poor way for them to save a buck.
THE lovely 10" drilled solid rotors and very light 4 pot aluminum calipers redeem this set up somewhat though and give stopping power beyond whats needed in a trike considerably lighter than the donor Spyder.
I am using Kumho 165/55 R14 76Vs as opposed to the Spyder's higher profile 165/65 R14 Kendas. The shorter sidewalls should theoretically give better response, though not having tried the Kendas, I can't say for sure. From reports on the Spyder forums, they definitely last longer and are cheaper. They also helped with keeping the ride height closer to where it was with the old 10" wheels, though other adjustments had to made as well.
On the whole I preferred the ride/handling provided by the atv front end with its 10 lb wheel/tire combo and minimalist aluminum spindles. They were not much for looks though and the tiny brakes were not up to slowing the trike acceptably.
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Post by noahkatz on Jun 25, 2020 19:42:32 GMT -5
Interesting that the desirability of lower unsprung weight bears out, though I guess a lot of it may be due to the increased rotational inertia of the larger diameters.
Did you give up on the R1 engine transplant?
Does it have traction control? That could help a bunch with traction off the line.
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Post by liteway on Jun 25, 2020 23:44:53 GMT -5
Not to split hairs but I have an fz1, not an R1. Its a 2005 model, the last year of the first generation which had carbs, no fi. Although both are 1000cc and the FZ motor is actually based on the previous generation R1 engine, it was fitted with smaller carbs for a flatter torque curve. The FZ1 is not really a full on sport bike, but more a naked standard, 65 or 70 lbs heavier than an r1. I'm thinking it might have wider gear spacing or at least a shorter first to cope with that extra weight. I have not confirmed that. I can tell you the FZ launches really easy, unlike the sport bikes I am familiar with. For those reasons I think it's a better choice for a trike motor than an r1 and used FZs go much cheaper than an equivalent condition R1. No traction control, it's a bare bones sort of thing with analogue gauges and no anti-lock brakes. Even so 140 hp is far more than I need. I still have the bike, and so long as I do, an engine swap remains a possibility. I am not leaning that way today, can't say about tomorrow. I would prefer an FZ6 engine, the first gen, before yamaha neutered them, presumably to put more distance between it and the R6 Yes, traction control would be great. i.pinimg.com/originals/5d/2e/f5/5d2ef5ea0caad7455897c88a76413602.jpgNote the differences in swing arm lengths. Even though the total length, front of engine to rear axle is obviously greater on the bike, The 1000cc fz1 engine is actually shorter than the 600 due to the transmission configuration. Transmission shafts are stacked rather than one behind the other.
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Post by noahkatz on Jun 26, 2020 10:36:08 GMT -5
Ah; that's actually a pretty big follicle
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Post by davej98002 on Jun 26, 2020 12:39:44 GMT -5
I think Yamaha was one of the first to make the transmissions stack higher and forward. Then the made the swingarm longer so the wheel base was the same. This was to help keep the front wheel down. Its like a FJR1300, TONS of torque but in normal spirited riding it will not pull a wheely. It can if you try.
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Post by liteway on Jun 26, 2020 12:55:29 GMT -5
That's right Dave. But in the case of the FZ1, you still have get out over the relatively high bars to keep the front down in first and second when you open the throttle and you hit about 7 or 8 grand. 10k is the power peak with 11.5 redline. No doubt its largely due to my advancing years, but I cannot rev this bike past 9 grand without experiencing stark terror. i.pinimg.com/originals/ec/e3/f3/ece3f3f0b96856e2fb82d2f2a34a52c3.jpg
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Post by liteway on Oct 17, 2020 15:52:26 GMT -5
I started to post this a couple of times, but withdrew before I thought too many saw it because I thought the whole darn project might wind up in the dumpster and it may yet. I have considered converting my trike to fully enclosed for a long time, but have only recently come up with a plan that has some chance of success. What the heck. Failure is part of life and you cannot succeed at anything truly difficult without risking failure first. I actually began this project a couple of months ago. A few of the front end pieces are finished and I am confident (uh-ho) I can fabricate most the rest. The big scary part is the Canopy. It's going to be complex and must hinge from the side, F 104 style, while not winding up all wobbly and ill fitting, poorly sealing or worst of all, ugly. My plan, like so many of mine before, is not detailed and will require winging my way through. I do not mind constructive criticism, or improvement suggestions, bearing in mind I have already given this a lot of thought trying to figure out how to get this done with a limited skill set and a sparsely equipped shop. Also, I am pretty hard headed. I will proceed front to back. If by the time I reach the engine frame and mounts and the closed cockpit and mechanism is of the quality I hope, I plan to saw away the old engine frame and mounts and install the FZ1 engine. Plan B. If the closed cockpit is a bust, I will leave it open but with a full windshield, retain the 600 and spare the FZ. i.pinimg.com/originals/93/4f/5b/934f5b3d064ca5470364765ffd41d02c.jpgi.pinimg.com/originals/78/a1/f9/78a1f99978c4ef9ab34303b49436a54f.jpgSome of you may have seen this earlier sketch I made years ago o the direction I wanted to go at the time. I think it looks better/sexier than what I am building now, but there is a problem with it. It will not fit around my current chassis and requires more fiberglass work than I want to do, even if I had the skill.(which I probably don't) Where I'm at: i.pinimg.com/originals/2e/f9/38/2ef93850f0a1be96e650224fe3408861.jpgI have begun by raising the hood line about 3 inches at the front edge (same old height at the cowl end) and extending the front about that too. This gives room to move the air horn and radiator overflow up front and gives the trike a bit more road presence, I think. Poster board hood not recommended. Intended features, Vigorous forced air ventilation, heat/defrost and just possibly a swamp cooler if ways can be found to protect electrics. I don't mean one of those big tubes hug out the window of a 53 Ford, but something that works on the same principle worked into the extra space I will have under the hood. Or; I could incorporate the big tube into the center of the rear wing and claim it as a jet assist. Maybe not. www.etsy.com/listing/115395443/swamp-cooler-vintage-window-ac?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_a-art_and_collectibles-collectibles-memorabilia-other&utm_custom1=_k_EAIaIQobChMI-Oq34Ze97i.pinimg.com/originals/3f/f1/9f/3ff19f3042b31b5298f2001b5c947c58.jpg$59,000 Price $59,000 if ordering at the same time as your SubSonex kit! *Note: You Must Sign and Submit the PBS Liability Agreement to place an order. Includes Throttle Quadrant, Cockpit Engine Instrument, and all additional PBS accessories required for installation in the SubSonex Personal Jet. Sonex Web Store - PBS TJ-100 Turbojet Engine PBS TJ-100 ...www.sonexaircraft.com › eshop › cart
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Nov 22, 2020 9:30:06 GMT -5
This has long been term goal of mine as well, from the things I have seen you come up with I have no doubt you will come up with something good looking and workable. If you need any sheet metal brackets plasma cut or machining hit me up with an email and I will see what I can make for you.
good luck!
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Post by liteway on Nov 22, 2020 12:02:00 GMT -5
Thanks for encouragement and offer of support. I have made some progress on the new nose and hood, but I am stalled, (expected as much) at making a mockup of the canopy before attempting fabrication. My usual use of posterboard does not cut it. I'll likely figure it out after a couple weeks of head scratching. i.pinimg.com/originals/0a/bf/8f/0abf8f26a95040a25f5c06f6817a31e3.jpg
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Post by liteway on Mar 8, 2021 20:49:20 GMT -5
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Mar 14, 2021 14:23:58 GMT -5
Nothing but good work from you as per usual, now we need to know if your fuel mileage is increased or if you just get to look cooler when you drive by?
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Post by liteway on Apr 4, 2021 21:26:29 GMT -5
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Post by liteway on May 23, 2021 21:26:25 GMT -5
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Post by CaptainAmerica on May 24, 2021 15:36:10 GMT -5
As always your craftsmanship is on point! how big of a steering wheel do you run? I have an 11" and I can never see the top of the gauges through the wheel, which leads me to constantly be checking if I left the turn blinker on. Also I would be curious how much a lip on the end of the shield might help deflect air or if that angle is enough to scoot if right over you head.
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Post by liteway on May 24, 2021 18:04:45 GMT -5
I think it is 12." As you can see in the picture, I had to move the speedo outboard the rim to get it entirely in view after I went back to a steering wheel. That dark partially obscured round instrument is a voltage gauge I put in to fill the hole where the speedometer was with the stick steering. The wide dash (for a single seater) provides a few options and allows most the switch gear to be in view too. Only a road test will make it certain, but judging from the previous lookover screen that was much farther away and narrower but which still managed to keep the wind blast to around eye level, this one should direct wind well over the top of my helmet. A think a lip will be unnecessary as the top of windshield will be about level with the top my bare head and only 20 to 22 inches ahead. Setting so close it feels all encompassing as the sides extend way back with edges and top just within periphiferal vision. A lip could add distortion and turbulence. More concerning is that it will not cause buffeting. With the old shield and a 15mph or higher cross wind and wearing a helmet there was a near constant rocking of the head left and right. And it happened with or without the windscreen. Very annoying. Not nearly so bad in ball cap and sunglasses, but I preferred to wear a helmet, especially in the winter or on the open highway. The very first set up I had with the relatively blunt motorcycle type windshield, and where I looked relatively exposed with a low cowl and cut down sides worked great. Best wind protection and no buffeting or backwash except in extreme crosswinds. Hard to tell how air flow will wind up just by looking, the proof will be in the riding. Already a couple of negatives have surfaced; it will be harder to get in and out (anticipated)and reaching in to steer from outside is restricted (obvious but not anticipated) i.pinimg.com/originals/1c/6c/bd/1c6cbd3bb6fab509733d71efe45948ce.jpg
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Post by liteway on Aug 8, 2021 21:01:22 GMT -5
Finally got the trike back to drivable condition for the first time since last Nov. All the metal panels are cut, shaped, screwed and pop riveted to one another and the frame. I think I wound up using 8, 2x4 .040 sheets , 1 .050 and 1 .060. I used up over 800 1/8 x 1/4 aluminum pop rivets, though more than a quarter of those were used to correct mistakes after the initial riveting. Wind protection is as near total as you can imagine in something without a roof. I think you could smoke a cigarette behind the screen at 55. There is less air moving around than in any convertible I have been in with the roof down. It will definitely have to be fresh air vented. I may cut some small holes at the base of the shield. It did not help that it was pretty hot today and I had wrecked out the firewall edging with the old body work that kept heat from backwashing off the engine into the cockpit . A 20 minute ride at 85 degrees nearly cooked me. It should not be hard to remedy that as it was mostly duct tape anyway. The new body incorporates a larger, more direct heater duct off the radiator. When I opened that , it was like stepping into a blast furnace. The trike should be good to drive all winter so long as there is not rain or snow. Problems with the polycarbonate though. It scratches very easily and is already starting to cloud from trying to remove those with plastic polish. At least there is no distortion. Long term something will have to be done, either cut it down enough to look over it or seek a better grade of poly and start all over. Scratch resistant poly sheet is not widely available and costs about 4 times as much so you don't want make any mistakes with it. I think I gave about 35 bucks apiece for a couple of 2x4 sheets of .080 from Aircraft spruce, whom I also used to source the aluminum sheet. Yards of various sized aluminum angle were bought at local hardware stores. Whether the trike looks any better than when I started is matter of opinion, but the added bulk does give some additional road presence which is mainly what I was out for, a bit less cart like and bit more sports car like. Once painted and polished I expect it will look a lot better. That's next. i.pinimg.com/originals/9c/bc/0f/9cbc0f06e1db7716e8fea333fd7eac51.jpgThe old trike at this phase. i.pinimg.com/originals/52/91/8f/52918f7c9baed8f03796d22199315be0.jpg
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Post by liteway on Aug 8, 2021 22:38:32 GMT -5
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Post by liteway on Aug 9, 2021 6:50:47 GMT -5
i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/c9/64/cbc96489f99b8765dd7597906dfe846a.jpgDespite the large increase in surface area, the trike has not gained as much weight as you might suspect. The .040 aluminum sheet weights just 9 ozs. per square foot. The underlying bracing , .060 aluminum angle is also very light weight. The big tail fairing with wing and lights weighs 18 lbs as opposed to the old head fairing and fender that weighed 5 0r 6. Another 5 to 7lbs were gained up front, so in total it has gained about 25 lbs. I have not weighed it in total, but based on prior weight, it should come in from 650 to 660 with 1/2 tank of fuel. I personally have intentionally lost 20 lbs during the last year so call it a wash.
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Post by fatherchuck53 on Aug 9, 2021 10:57:01 GMT -5
I like the “new” look of it. It looks smoother, more blended. It shows someone took time and had talent to design and fab the trike. Cost and availability of aluminum aircraft spruce I’ve found to be high, they are several venders on eBay that have a great selection of metals and good prices. If I may, two items to me that I would some day change. I know you just installed it but, the wing. It makes the trike look too long, tall and thin. And the “grill” the rectangle slots, it just doesn’t show off your talent as a metal worker. I don’t mean for these to be rude. I just got my new engine in mine and need to redo body work and am sure it’s going to be several try’s.
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Post by fatherchuck53 on Aug 9, 2021 11:51:49 GMT -5
It would be difficult to do by hand in aluminum, but I think I would try for an intake shaped like that of a 737 only more oval. You would probably have to change over to fiberglass for ease of construction unless you’re a meathead like me and enjoy the challenge.
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Post by liteway on Aug 9, 2021 13:15:37 GMT -5
Thanks for commenting. I enjoy the feed back.
On the front grill, it's not very imaginative, I agree. There is some unfortunate resemblance to a garden tractor. Needs some more thought, but I loath fiberglass work.
On the wing thing, making the trike look too long, tall and thin: Making the trike look longer was an original goal and I still thank it looks stubby in photos, but not so much in person. Its hard for me to capture the correct proportions in photos. Too thin? The body or the track? Yes that does contribute to the too tall look even though it is only 38 inches at the top of the windshield. Not much to do about that, but once again this seems to be exaggerated in photos and though I was hoping to address this with the new body, there was not much help. Another reason for the too tall look are the slab sides. Making some horizontal lines with graphics will help this a lot as it did with the last body. I do not attribute much of the too tall look to the wing, but the wing is too high. I likely will lower it a couple of inches and along with painting the clear end plates and finning the supports, I think it will then contribute more to the overall look.
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Post by fatherchuck53 on Aug 9, 2021 13:28:58 GMT -5
Haha garden tractor, I thought that too but wanted to be polite. The hard part with these is trying to keep them low and sleek but still visible to other drivers. I’ve thought about putting a wing on mine with both side running lights and rear running/ brake lights for visibility. The body to me is what looks so long and narrow. Graphics/paint may help that. I too dislike fiberglass work. Was bad 20 years ago.
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Post by davej98002 on Aug 9, 2021 14:01:30 GMT -5
If you learn how to Anneal aluminum it almost bends like half melted cheese. Watch this:
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Post by liteway on Aug 9, 2021 14:17:36 GMT -5
Haha garden tractor, I thought that too but wanted to be polite. The hard part with these is trying to keep them low and sleek but still visible to other drivers. I’ve thought about putting a wing on mine with both side running lights and rear running/ brake lights for visibility. The body to me is what looks so long and narrow. Graphics/paint may help that. I too dislike fiberglass work. Was bad 20 years ago. Yes , the ability to put some running lights or signal repeaters high on the wing end plates is something to take advantage of. I have been shopping for suitable leds.
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Post by liteway on Aug 9, 2021 14:44:25 GMT -5
If you learn how to Anneal aluminum it almost bends like half melted cheese. Watch this: I understand the softening part. It's the rehardening I do not get. It's rehardened through working it? With hammer or bending? How much hammering or bending is required? Ever try getting hammer marks out of aluminum? English wheels are not for the casual space and budget limited craftsman. Won't it be inconsistent depending on which areas have to be worked the most? Will it ever be as hard as it was before heating? You are going to need some type of buck to form it over and you are not going to get away with foam for this as you would with fiberglass. A wooden buck is labor intensive.
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Post by fatherchuck53 on Aug 9, 2021 14:58:01 GMT -5
Agreed liteway, to try and hammer out an intake ,like that would be ridicules hard to do. Too much chance to a thin spot or tear. The only way you would achieve it would plug and press. And a one off in wood would also be labor intensive. Bench top Planishing hammer can work out a lot of the marks. Not as good as a English wheel. I have both plus lots of experience with them but wouldn’t attempt it.
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Post by fatherchuck53 on Aug 9, 2021 15:01:12 GMT -5
I had a friend build an intake for her locust car out of foam and body putty. Ran it for several years with no problems until her husband backed into it.
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Post by davej98002 on Aug 9, 2021 17:16:16 GMT -5
Its been since 1996 when I took 2 quarters of Metallurgy.
Most annealed aluminum will age harden within 2 days on its own and in about a week will be like un-annealed. Not all alloy's will anneal as easy. I have hand formed 16 gauge by hand and 2x4 blocks ground down in to shapes on a grinder. I also used a leather sand bag and plastic and rubber hammers. But we did TIG weld a lot of shapes too, like a bead on a panel.
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Post by liteway on Aug 9, 2021 18:39:05 GMT -5
Not sure what the grade or type of aluminum bar the local hardware stores sell, but i have some 1" by 1/8" that I heated up a couple of months ago and while it regained much of its strength in the following days it still can be bent by hand with a pressure the never heated stuff cannot. It's the reason I got discouraged using low temp aluminum welding rods as the pieces being put together never seem to recover full bending strength.
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Post by fatherchuck53 on Aug 9, 2021 23:36:40 GMT -5
Most of your hardware store aluminum is 1100 grade. 1100 grade varies slightly from country to country in its alloy content. It will work harden but not age harden. One of the reasons hardware stores sell it.
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