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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:32:00 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing your costs. I find myself comparing what I have spent verses your totals. Good luck with DMV. |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:33:20 GMT -5
Vehicle registration and plate is in hand gentlemen...we have lift off of the space shuttle spartan just outside of Charlotte, North Carolina!!!! ...onwards to insurance  Which turned out to be $163/year, thats ~30 cents a day, I pay over $2 a day on my 2010 Rav4. |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:34:15 GMT -5
Wow, congrats Captain , be on the way after 150 Km testdrive to get it streetlegal the next weeks. Wow, 150Km test drive, that sounds like a smart idea but who has the time. I was really impressed with the quickness of the process here, the DMV has the plates and stickers on hand so there was no waiting to get any of that. |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:38:19 GMT -5
Congrats on getting that done!! Woo Hoo!!!! Another trike on the road. Great job!!!!!! High five!!!! Jim Awesome Captain! Job well done, now drive it! |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:38:52 GMT -5
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:40:04 GMT -5
One of the jobs I did at a race shop was to "Nut and Bolt" everything. I would use the torque wrench and check EVERY nut and bolt, then safety wire them, check them off the list. Wish I could instill that in my son. Even if he could remember to check for loose wrenches or sockets before going out for a test ride. That "Clinnnng, Clannnng, pop, binnnnng" sound as you go down the road is not so nice. |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:40:45 GMT -5
Hi Andy, It’s a great feeling to go on that first real ride. You should have a big grin that will last for several days. I hope you have added some padding to the seat area. Was warm enough this week that I rolled my trike out one evening for a short 20 mile ride. I use ny-lok nuts on all my suspension and steering bolts. Are you familiar with the little electronic device named Speedo Healer? It will allow you to enter a value to correct the stock speedo. Jim |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:41:42 GMT -5
I was unaware, but that would be nice. I have not added padding as of yet, I was using a bath towel behind my back to deal with the heat but it pushes me forwards and my knees start to bump the dash. Hopefully wrapping the exhaust will help with the temps and make the radiator heat load a little easier, although I have had no issue so far with the temperature of the trike. It hovers about 210-225. Right now my two main concerns are how short the clutch throw is which make starting quite a pain and how uncomfortable my seat is, I think I could get along without padding if I just shape the area around my hips better, currently I slide forward against the two inward facing plates and it causes two stress points instead of comfortably spreading the force. So some things to think about, I also shortened the shifter and made a little cap for it out of tubing and a piece of scrap to make the top, followed by grinder smoothing. By the way the nuts that came loose were nylocks, I switch the important ones (lower upright mount) over to all metal lock nuts. I am not sure if the A-arm nuts were my failure to properly tighten because both nuts on one a-arm were loose, all others were tight, but the lower upright on the drivers side was almost off the bolt and its mounted in an upward position meaning that lose would have put the bolt into the rim and probably would have lost the wheel and worse. Today everything looked good though so I will just have to keep an eye on it, my life is in my hands Just purchased the speedo healer, thanks for the suggestion. It thought I went 115 miles today. Also to the forum here, suggestions on camera placement and mounting, I have been mounting to the roll hoop which works but you don't see much of the trike, but more importantly its bouncy and the noise in all positions is pretty bad, it catches the same thing I hear but with a ton of low end static that ruins the video in my opinion. I mounted the A-arm which gave an interesting |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:43:20 GMT -5
Best if you can attach the video recorder to the side of your helmet. I have relatively heavy family Sony camcorder. I made an aluminum bracket out of .050. 1.5" wide, 3.5" long, bent 90 degrees in the middle. One leg bolts to the camcorder at the tripod mount, the other is simply duct taped to the side of the helmet. Put down a layer of duct tape on the helmet first to prevent scratching. Use Gorilla brand duct tape. Will not come loose. Attaching the camera to your helmet instead of the trike allows your body to absorb much of the vibration, and gives a better prospective at to what the rider is seeing. |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:44:27 GMT -5
Hi Andy, Some race car drivers “foam” their seats. The foam is a two part mix that foams up about twenty times the mixed amount. The drivers that have an alum seat with a vinyl cover mix the foam and pour it into a plastic bag, place it under the cover and sit in it while the foam foams up. The foam will seek out the lowest resistance spot, filling any void between your body and the seat. This will give you a 100% load bearing seat, no pressure points. I did this with my race cars, though the foam is quite hard, it will be very comfortable. The seat area in my race cars was very large, as we did not use a purchased seat, rather a fabricated area like your trike seat area. We would mix about a gallon of foam to make a seat. Yours will take very little, as it is small compared to the seat area I would foam. Our seats had about six inches of width on each side from hip to sheet metal side of seat. You could do several small bags to fill certain pressure points if you fit the seat area tightly. Seat fabrication points: - Have other people to help, minimum one if not two. - Plan ahead, as you do not have a lot of time before foam starts to expand. - Foam will heat up as it cross links, (about 110 deg f) Be prepared, no bare skin. - Sit exactly as you would drive the trike until the foam is hard. Plan on wallet in pocket or not. Hold on to steering wheel as driving. Keep legs held as driving. Do not relax. - Use rubber gloves and do not get mixed foam on bare skin. (nasty stuff) - Use heavy thick plastic bags, or double bag thin ones. - Do not seal or tie bags shut, they may burst (real ugly mess) - After foam hardens cut excess off, carve shape to suit, paint color of choice with house paint. - Jim |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:45:21 GMT -5
Bag foam is my plan once I get the metal portion figured out. I am lucky to be working with some very talented people who know their stuff on seats. I am going to get to watch them pour our new indy car drivers seat in the next few weeks and watch and learn from the pros. |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:46:20 GMT -5
April 23, 2014 I finally got around to fixing the seat and the thing is almost undriveable. As shown below I widened out the seat quite a bit, but now I have nothing holding me from sliding forwards so I reflexively rely on my knees butting up against the gauge cluster and my feet on the pedals which makes removing your feet from the pedal a task. Also I find it funny and ironic that most people who sit in it usually have to straight leg it to get to the pedals, no wonder racecar drivers are small and I am not one of them. Anyway hopefully I will get a temporary fix in place tonight. I talked to the seat folks at rollbarpadding.com who happened to be located across the street from where I work and they are looking into helping me get my poured foam seat made. The cost is probably gonna be around $700 dollars but hopefully the comfort on long trips will be worth it.   |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:47:15 GMT -5
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:48:13 GMT -5
Congrats on the dragstrip run. Been wanting to see what mine would do for years, but never got around to it. Your run inspires me to get it done when I get it back together. I worried a bit about staging being awkward without reverse. Any trouble with that or tech inspect? What was your time? |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:49:00 GMT -5
There wasn't any tech inspection that I know of, just a test and tune evening. Staging was just a one shot drive forward, and go so no issue there. I laid down the hammer...69mph at 12.8 seconds. I think with decent tires and more controlled acceleration I could break into the 100mph, 10sec range. Staring down the outside wall half way down the strip doesn't do much for your elapsed time, neither does a one second reaction time, but that has more to do with the clutch then my actual reaction. |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:52:49 GMT -5
Morning Captain, awesome job I am very envious and hope my machine turns out just as good as yours has. I would like to ask you about the rear lower shocker mount you have made on your trike the tube/pipe nearest the motor, I note you mentioned you have transferred from the bike all the same mounting points such as engine mounts, swing arm ect which is what I have also done, I am at the stage of mounting the lower rear shocker mount and have noticed I think from your photos that yours is not as it was on the bike it seems much lower than the lower engine mount and on the bike it is above the lower engine mount, is there a reason for this that I have not yet seen? Also I notice on the bike frame where the shocker mounts is a fairly solid / rigid mounting point which indicates to me there is a lot of forces acting on it, the tube/pipe you have used, in the long term will it be strong enough or does it flex/bend with the forces acting on it? Your input is much appreciated. Regards, Ned. Was the Civic forward or aft of you at the finish line? |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:53:39 GMT -5
The civic was in front of me sadly by 0.014s at the end. I end out again last night, got 4 runs in and got to start tinkering with the way I was running. My reaction time with the clutch is still atrocious but I won 2/4 and laid down a 86mph - 9.07s time on the 1/8th. When I get the launch right I lose the rear end and it slows me down so I think nicer tires are in order, probably a hooiser street legal slick on the back. I want to get 100mph and somewhere in the 8s would make me happy, I think its possible too. The hayabusa's were running 160mph-5.20s so theres a lofty goal for me I have video this time, in car and from the stands which I will get to uploading this weekend. |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:54:17 GMT -5
The most impressive part of this project, in my opinion, is the fantastic use of SolidWorks. Your final detailed depictions are fantastic. I am a beginning user and student of SW and have downloaded the files for the Hayabusa and human figure. I haven't even figured out how those were done! Is there anyway you might share some of the SW files for the trike you built? I know it will come with practice but I am baffled as to how you depict something like a chassis tube with a three degree location for each end. I don't use SW at work or in any professional way so all of my learning is with the tutorials and Lynda.com. Any kind of help welcome and thank you. Like I said, the detail and use is awesome and eliminates countless mistakes compared to either 2D multi views or going out in the shop and just doing it. |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:54:58 GMT -5
First drag strip films, I lost to the Mustang to the line but won in elapsed time by half a second, I spend to much time finding the clutch during the launch but its fun anyways. I beat the FR-S fair and square even with a bad start, its fun catching people. To answer some questions, Ned - The mount points are still the same, its very close to the lower engine mount, I believe its about 1.5"(29mm) at a 45 degree angle from the lower mount. I also tested it with the full vehicle weight as just a 120 wall tube and it bent quite a bit so I added some really think reinforcement plates vertically above it linking it back to the engine mounts and haven't had a problem since. If you look in my latest picture post at the picture of the mechanic changing the chain you can see the plates welded in, one vertical from the swing arm to the bell crank mount and then one from that plate directly to the point of attachment of the bell crank. It is something I need to keep an eye on from a fatigue point of view as it sees a lot of load cycles in bending. ferrabusa - good to have you with us, glad to see others using CAD, I can upload a couple things, such as an old version of the chassis to look at, but the number one thing for chassis work is going to be drawing 2D versions of what you want, from a top and side view, and then sitting there manually recording all the points as X,Y,Z values. Then in solid works you want to make a 3D sketch which allows you to put points anywhere and just start putting points in by your previously laid out values.   Final 3D sketch  Then use Weldments and your index library to create each pipe. Look up how to make a library file, and you pre sketch all your tube profiles, I have .5 - 1.5 with 049,065,095,120 wall thicknesses all saved as library files so when I make a tube I just click the line in the 3D sketch I want to make, go to the correct drop down menu and select the tube size I want. I makes chassis design possible in an evening. And then if you want to change something in the chassis you just go back to your base sketch and move the point and everything will update when you regenerate the geometry. Here are some links to tutorials, I can't vouch for them as I have not used them but they should get your started.  - creating weldement profile library files - Using weldement profiles to create tubing |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:55:41 GMT -5
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:56:20 GMT -5
Thanks very much for the great hints with SW. Exactly what I needed. FYI I'm designing an aluminum monocoque trike chassis for Hayabusa bolt on rear wheel power. So I'll have to use the techniques you describe to define the sheet metal parts for the chassis. Using SW like you did is much better than just using AutoCad in 2D. Thank you. |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:57:32 GMT -5
Hey Captain, Congrats again on this SolidWorks masterpiece you've created and used to facilitate an understanding of where everything fits. The detail (bolts, nut, engine, etc) is fabulous and your description of how, for me, to get started on the frame components really helped. Could I possibly coerce you into picking a couple of small components on the trike -- like a nut or a colored hose or something discrete -- and elaborating on how you created them? I am grateful. The pictures you have posted are great. I am following with interest your issues with the clutch and gearing. I am planning on using a Suzuki Hayabusa 1.3 liter power train for my creation and don't envision using it on the freeway too much. I am figuring on gearing it down for easier use around the Palm Springs area where it will be based. Thank you. Ferrabusa, I can't stress enough the use of the built in tutorials in solidworks, they are laid out really well and will teach you all the basics. But for details like the coolant pipe tubing it just a simple 2D sketch or two lines with a defined angle in between them, make sure you put the origin at the end of one of the lines. And the angle should be of a known purchasable item (ie 45, 60, 90) and then you use the fillet option selecting the two lines to create a radius between them then you hit the stop light button to exit the sketch. Then sketch on the plane normal to the line you just created, say if you sketched on the right plane and your lines went from the origin left then you would sketch on the front plane and draw your tube profile, maybe 1" OD with a 3/16" wall thickness. Hit the stop light to exit that sketch and then go to the features tab and click the sweep button, select you first sketch at the line of action and your second sketch as the profile of the sweep and voila you have a tube. The key is that the profile has to lie normal to and at the end of the line of action and then the line of action can basically look like whatever you want. Again look at the tutorials, solidworks is one of the best in the business for beginners and after you work with it for awhile you will realize what I have done it just a matter of time and proper handling of ideas not so much an actual skill with the program. Most of my models are simple 2D sketches extruded into 3D shapes except the engine. Andrew |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 20:58:45 GMT -5
Andrew - I found the tutorials and they are great and there are plenty of others that are really helpful. Questions: 1. What spring rate did you end up using for the two front shocks? How about the one rear shock? Too much, too little? 2. Did you use the stock GSXR 1000 swing arm? Is it really 30 inches like in the drawing? 3. Is it the stock rear wheel? 4. Are you getting wheel spin with that rear tire under hard accel? Thanks Andrew. JBB |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 22:48:42 GMT -5
Ferrabusa, Looking at Andrew's drawings I see 30" between the sprocket centers. I infer about a 6" difference between the front sprocket and and swing arm front pivot. That gives a 24 " swingarm length, axle to pivot. He uses the stock GSXR swingarm and rear rim. High powered sport bikes have long swing arms to prevent wheelies and to help with pitch control, not so vital on trikes. On mine, with a custom swingarm, that distance is 16.5. Were we theoretically to swap swing arms, my wheelbase would be 96", his 87.5. about the reverse of what they actually are. That is how I was able to get plenty of leg/seat room with a short wheelbase. Being only 5'10" helps too. No doubt this comes with some sacrifice in ride quality, pitch control and possibly high speed stability, vs. better traction, shorter turn radius. As usual its all about trade offs, personal preferences and requirements. Be aware of another difference in bike/trike swing arm requirements. The higher the front pivot of the swingarm in relation to the front sprocket, the greater the tendency of the rear tire to jack as it tries to run itself under the trike. If the point is too low , squat is the result. On a bike, with its high center of gravity, and resultant high weight transfer under throttle, factories tend to place the pivot relatively high for anti-squat. Same geometry applied to trike can cause jacking, at least it did on mine, so after some experimentation I lowered it about 5/8" for much better stability. I may be over simplifying as there other variables involved such as swing arm length and angle at ride height so I am not implying Andrew's swingarm geometry is faulty, may work great in his application. |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 22:49:53 GMT -5
Ferrabusa, Triplethreat hit the nail on the head, for my first time out I copied the bike geometry as close as possible for better or worse. I do get wheel spin at any range of speed (0-90mph) if I put my foot into it, there is just to much weight in front of that one wheel and not enough traction, I am tempted to put a few bricks in the ecu compartment next time I hit the drag strip and just see it putting weight in the rear will keep that tire grounded. Front spring rate is 95 lbs/in from Hyperco, its the smallest they make for that size shock and I am tempted to go lower as I need 2.75" of compression to center out my shock and I only have about 230lbs at the wheel which puts me a bit short and adding weight doesn't really appeal to me much. The rear spring is the stock one off the bike, 450 lbs/in I believe. The only modification I had to make was altering the length of the bell crank pull rods, reducing them about 1/2" in length. Just a note here, I get a big jolt when I hit a hard bump/pothole, no steering issue, but the shocks are at their lowest stiffness setting and so I am think I need to get the re-valved to be softer, either that or the forces that the front suspension is seeing are so small that the springs act like solid mounts but I don't tend to agree with that idea considering how heavy my outers are. Andrew |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 22:51:05 GMT -5
Can't the stiff front end issues be resolved by rejiggering the bell cranks? The first time I saw them, I thought," man that has to be really stiff or maybe he has some really soft springs". They look like the bell cranks on a circuit racer where compliance is practically a nonissue. Looks like the distance from main pivot on the bell cranks to suspension link is only half the distance from between main pivot to coil over end, effectively doubling your spring rate and making your shocks stiffer. Would not playing around with those ratios be easier than than trying to guess the right spring rate/ shock valving, and then ordering new ones, that may or may not be right? I started with a 2.5" arc radius on the pushrod ends and 4" radius on the shock ends, found that too stiff and went to 2.875 and 3.5 and that seems about the same stiffness I had with the conventional coilover mt. to a-arm suspension. Have a look at Kolibri's bell cranks with lots of holes drilled along both edges. Should be a tuner's delight. |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 22:52:08 GMT -5
I actually currently run 2.5 to 4 ratio. Seems we think much a like, I did it to get a 1:1 ratio with the wheels to make calculations easier. I am not sure how exactly to change the ratio with out things hitting each other, most the push rod and the chassis. I'm sure I'll think of something. |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 22:53:26 GMT -5
Dodged a bullet today, and probably have been for a few weeks, the rear end has started tearing apart at the rear bell crank mount due to the lack or support where the exhaust passes through. I will post pictures soon but suffice to say the failure occurred at a weld point but the failure cause was the need to cut through the mount to pass the exhaust through allowing the system to twist under load and fail due to fatigue. Short story, after 800 miles I am down for a few days to fix this. I have a fix in mind already which is much stronger but I need the time to get the parts made and the tubing bought. |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 22:54:18 GMT -5
Hey Captain, I think the bell crank ratio is the key. You didn't say if the "jolt" was jounce or rebound. Hitting the mechanical stops on rebound would be a jolt for sure and a too stiff spring rate would give the a jolt too. If you exaggerated the ratio hypothetically towards 1 to 1, the vehicle would obviously sit lower, towards the center of the shock travel. Push rod length adjustment would determine desired ride height. Then the only other variable would be the shock valving which could be then re-evaluated with the new effective spring rate. I was planning on using the same front shocks you have -- do you know if the valving orifices are readily available for mods? Otherwise we'd have to go with more expensive versions (Penske, etc.) that are. JBB |
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Post by CaptainAmerica on Dec 21, 2018 22:54:59 GMT -5
Another question -- If the swing arm pivot point and the location of the front drive sprocket differ (is it really 6 inches?) what happens to the chain tension during rear wheel travel? Thanks. JBB |
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